When was your Selmer Paris Saxophone made? This is the most accurate Selmer Serial Number Chart on the internet!Friend of GetASax.com Douglas Pipher has been given unprecedented access to the Selmer Paris archives, and after thousands of hours of research has compiled a brand new and more Selmer Serial Number Chart for Selmer saxophones. With permission, we have printed the results of his research below.
If you are wanting to sell your Selmer saxophone, we are always buying vintage saxophones. Please email us atSelmer Serial Numbers – a Fresh ApproachDouglas Pipher, June 20, 2017The existing Selmer Serial Number Chart has been available on the internet for years. Many saxophonists use it as the authority for determining when an instrument was made. But there are problems with the existing chart, such as the timing of the introduction of the different models. It seems unlikely that every new model was introduced exactly at the beginning of a new year. It also seems unlikely that each year’s production ended at a conveniently round number. Was the chart built from specific data or was it just someone’s estimate; a guess which eventually became assumed to be an absolute truth?
With these questions in mind, the need for a fresh look became clear, to see if there was a way to measure the accuracy, or inaccuracy, of the existing chart. Douglas Pipher decided to take on the challenge.Clearly the first step was to collect as much primary data as possible. It is well known that Selmer Paris possesses some archival records but they are not available to the public. With a background in statistical analysis and an established record in the study of Selmer history, Douglas was able to secure access to these archives. Once there, the daunting nature of the task became apparent.
The archives are comprised of a series of very old and fragile notebooks, written by a variety of people, in a variety of handwriting styles. Some were neat and detailed and others were nearly illegible and of course, it is all written in French.
But, the fact that all the data still existed was like finding a treasure.The archive records contain four key elements:– Instrument type (Alto, Tenor etc)– Finish and custom features– Shipping date– DestinationIn most cases, there was no mention of what model was being produced. The data started at serial #5000 and continued for over 75 years. Whether earlier notebooks were lost or were never kept is unfortunately unknown.The first phase of the research was to study the records from the beginning up to the end of the Mark VI era. (1927 to 1975) After several trips to Paris and several thousand hours of research and study, the original shipping data was collected and organized. Finally, it was possible to do a detailed study of each year’s actual sales and compare them the to the information suggested in the existing serial number chart.Let’s take a look at 1927, the earliest year for which full data was available.The existing serial number chart showed a range from 5601 to 7850. By simple subtraction, 2249 saxophones were allegedly built in 1927.
A search of the actual shipping dates for this serial number range revealed the following:Only 1537 saxophones within this range were shipped in 1927. An additional 404 were shipped in 1928 and 27 more were shipped even later than that. Dividing the actual number (1537) by the alleged number (2249) revealed that the serial number range for 1927 was only 68% correct. Clearly, there was room for improvement.This process was repeated for each year up to 1975. The average accuracy for the entire existing serial number chart was a disappointing 66%. That’s only two out of three! So about a third of the people using the list got the wrong year for their saxophone.
It quickly became obvious that an improved chart was needed.Fortunately, the primary shipping data could now be used to rebuild the serial number chart from scratch. Beginning with a list of all the actual 1927 sales, they were sorted by serial number. Next, they were grouped into serial number ranges of 100. (5000 – 5099, 5100 – 5199 etc) and the total number of 1927 sales within each group was calculated.The chart at left shows that less than one quarter of the saxes in the 5000 to 5299 serial number range were sold in 1927.
Most were sold in 1926. The range from 7300 to 7800 also showed less than half of the sales in 1927, with most of the remainder being sold in 1928. Between the 5300 and 7299 range, most of the saxes were sold in 1927. This range became the initial boundary for 1927 production.
By taking a closer look, right down to individual instruments, the starting and ending points of the range were modified as needed. The most accurate serial number range for 1927 was finalized as 5300 – 7280. Repeating this process for each year up to 1975 resulted in the development of a chart with an average accuracy of 82%. For searches of Alto or Tenor only, the accuracy rose to 86%.Why is the new chart not 100% accurate? A look at the 1927 chart to the left makes the answer quite clear. As mentioned above, the 1927 range was determined to be 5300 – 7280, so the 1928 serial number range logically started at 7281. But many saxophones from 7300 to 7800 were sold in 1927.
The majority of the horns in this range which were sold in 1928, but clearly not all of them. There are many reasons for this. Different distributors had different specifications, which affected delivery times. The US-Market horns, for instance, were not normally engraved, padded or lacquered in France. This meant that US-Market horns shipped earlier than others.The more unusual types of saxophones, such as the Sopranino or Bass, were often sold months or even years later than one might expect.
Individual saxophones with custom finishes or features would naturally take longer to build, thus delaying their completion date. In building as complex an instrument as a saxophone, there are many reasons why and individual sax’s completion date could be delayed by days, weeks or months.The improved serial number chart is by no means flawless. But it’s does allow for a far greater level of confidence for Selmer owners and enthusiasts. Douglas’ ongoing primary research continues to extend the scope of the improved chart, into the Mark VII range and beyond.
Douglas Pipher is a Canadian saxophonist, collector and researcher who has spent the last several years studying Selmer instruments with the goal of improving our understanding of Selmer history through primary research. He can be reached at. You’re right, that would be useful. But it would actually also be a little tricky, for a number of reasons.1. Selmer didn’t use model names early on, the way that we are used to thinking. There was no “official name” for the Selmer tenors around 15xxx serial, for example.2.
The keywork changes change at different times – the altos always change first, then tenors, and finally soprano, baritone and other voices (if ever)3. So Selmer might be making a Mark VI alto at 53k, but a Super Action Baritone and tenor, and essentially a Modele 26 soprano!4. Sometimes the first batch of horns with a given change could be followed by later horns that go back and have the older features. I picked up Selmer Alto Sax (As-100) Made in the USA from my friend who purchased it a few years ago. I am guessing he bought it sometime around 2012 to 2013 (just a guess). I was looking to upgrade my YAZ model and he was moving.
So he sold me his As-100 Serial #829121. He moved away and I can’t find him. Now I was online looking to see when this was made and what the Value maybe. I checked all the normal Cat# abd serial # web sites but I have had no luck. If anyone has any info or a possible web site that has this info.
Foxyspider addons for firefox. Or maybe a updated phone number to call these guys. Thank would be great!! Please email it to me. Thanks a bunch!Smitty.
I was a bari player in high school, but I always loved the alto and wanted one of my own (especially since bari's are so expensive in comparison). It's been a few years since I've played a sax and I'm dying to get back into it. I found a 'Super Classic Amati Kraslice' (they call it a vintage silver Czechoslovakia Classic) for sale in my area for $140. The owner says it was purchased in Prague, Czech Republic and made in 1980. It is in need of some repair (pads etc.) but nothing too major from what I can tell, and that's what apparently is bringing the price down so low. I'm curious as to what anyone knows about these horns and if it would be worth anything to buy this and spend a bit extra fixing it up and getting some good equipment for it. As I understand it:Amati was a nationalised amalgamation of the independant pre WWII musical instrument builders centred in Kraslice.
Two biggest names melded into this concern were Keilwerth and Kohlert. (although both got going again separately in Germany, taking expertise with them). Post war the designs/quality fluctuated a lot, and tended to fall behind other makers. By the Super Classics, they'd pretty much sorted things out and were making decent horns, even if the market perception is different. I've a Super classic tenor that I'm repadding at the moment. It's well made and solid, but was unplayable when I got it, so I can't say more than that yet. They tended to keep to the darker sound, rather than the brighter sound of the French/Far eastern saxes.Take a close look at the silver plating.
Tranish on the surface is no problem, but puts many people off, so lowers the price. If it's solid, with no black corrosion coming through, it'll be OK, just an occasional wipe with a cloth/silver cloth. Even if there's a little corrosion in a couple of places, not too bad, you can easily keep on top of it with a silver cloth. If the plating's peeling, it's a very expensive fix. However wear through to brass on some keys wouldn't be so badly thought of.
And on my tenor, the glue (sealing wax) holding the pads in was so shot that there was no option but a complete repad. Likely the one you're looking at will either be there, or be there soon.As for price/value, your local market is probably far different to here. Big risk is that the cost of a repad puts the cost of the horn over it's resale value - but if you're intending to play and keep,this is much less of an issue. As for kit you'd buy around the horn, it'll all be transferable to another if you decide to change in the future, so not really a consideration.Price in a complete repad/recork and think carefully about the resale value/total cost.Could be a bargain. Could be a white elephant.
Personally I think you'll be happy with it, but I'm a sucker for older saxes. And a brand new shiney Bauhaus Walstein or other reputable brand could well cost you the same. Kev's about spot on as usual (I think he's turned into a bit of an oracle actually!) I can't tell you about the alto, however, I've been playing one of their 1960 tenors for the past 4 or 5 years and I love it. It's sturdy and reliable (although a rod did fall off at a jam session the other night, but that's my fault for not giving her a regular check over with a screwdriver!) I had it serviced when I first got it, (I paid about £180 for the horn) and another £150 ish for the service. It's had a very hard life gigged most weekends, it gets busked with several times a week and has never let me down yet!It may be worth asking the seller if they will let you take the horn to a tech, to get a quote for the work and maybe a valuation both pre and post work.Let us know how you get on. Thanks for the advice.
I'm hoping to be able to check it in person soon. If there doesn't seem to be any major corrosion or broken keys etc. And everything else seems alright based on some playing, then I think I'll go for it. My brother has had some pretty good repair training and experience, and I've been itching to learn basic woodwind repairs myself, so this seems like a great opportunity to me (and if it all goes horribly wrong, then I've learned a few lessons and get to dish out a bit more money than I'd hoped). I am also a sucker for the old sounding saxes. There's just something particularly wonderful about them.
Vintage Tenor Saxophones For Sale
So here's hoping!